Palmer: An alien when they
were at the alien ship site?
The question has arisen on various online movie sources whether Palmer was human or alien at the time him, MacReady, and Norris were at the alien ship site.
A forum member suggested: "Yes he was a Thing....but Palmer-Thing was probably smart enough to know that he'd have to explain to someone eventually exactly why he bolted the camp and left his mates behind. Further, without killing or assimilating the rest of the camp members, then he runs the risk of being exposed.
For example, what if Outpost 31 is able to establish communication with a Russian or Swedish camp? Or, what if Palmer is seized by Russians (there's still the cold war) and put in a holding cell?
Or what if he was incarcerated by Americans who might accuse him of endangering the lives of the rest of his camp? There are a lot of variables.
A good theory, but the obstacle I have with this is it goes against basic survival priorities. For example, you're caught in a raging river, only a matter of time before the strong current forces you under, drowning you or slamming your head into a rock cracking your skull open.
Fortunately within reach you see a branch overhang. You can grab it and work your way to shore. However, you notice on shore are a pack of wolves stopping for a drink.
You're not going to conclude, well if I grab the branch and make it to shore, then those wolves ...if they are still there when I reach shore...if they haven't fed yet, then they might attack me, so maybe I better not grab the branch.
The branch is your best shot opportunity at the moment. Your exclusive priority is to first keep from drowning, then worry about the wolves.
Palmer, a second string chopper pilot, is just a hop-skip away from the chopper.
Palmer, if he was a thing, looking down in the ice recess where Mac and Norris are standing on the alien ship, now knows that the humans are aware the aberration they witnessed in the kennel is alien.....a dangerous alien.
Seems to me if Palmer was a Thing, it would rather take its chances with humans who are oblivious that aliens even exist (the Russians, or whoever) than continuing the showdown with humans who now know what it really is and more importantly, the humans now know what it's physical abilities are (assimilation).
Being among unsuspecting humans (Russians or whoever), even if it's held captive (as a human) returns the advantage to the Thing.
I can't see the Thing standing there at the alien ship site contemplating "well..... if outpost 31 regains communications..... or if Russians might catch me..... or if other Americans might incarcerate me.....or whatever other what-ifs, then maybe I better not escape."
Seems to me it would adhere to basic survival priorities, including regaining it's covert edge over unsuspecting humans.
Before leaving, Palmer-Thing would simply detach the climbing ropes, leaving MacReady and Norris marooned in the ice recess.
If Palmer was a Thing, that was it's best opportunity. The camp wouldn't expect them back for hours. Additionally, more hours would pass before the camp finally concludes a search is necessary, even more hours would be gained since the members at the camp would have to travel by land to go investigate the site to see why they haven't returned.
Pretty much the top shelf golden opportunity for a hostile alien as I see it. . . if Palmer was an alien. ; )
On a side note: This scene represents extremely poor station management on Garry's part and poor thinking on MacReady's part . . . or otherwise known as a convenient plot device script writers slip in hoping no one will notice.
When MacReady decided to fly to the alien ship site, Bennings had warned Mac, "Pretty nasty out Mac, 35 knots!" He shrugged off the warning and rushed out to his chopper anyway.
Never mind the fact this goes against the Mac character's behavior established earlier when Garry and Copper was wanting him to fly to the Norwegian camp. Mac pitched a fit about having to fly in bad weather. Now they can't keep him out of the white out of bad weather. That's quite the change of heart!
However, the core issue of this convenient plot device is, besides risking a flight in bad weather, who did they have string along? Palmer, the only other person that can fly a helicopter!
So much for a speedy rescue if Mac's chopper malfunctions, or a crash landing caused by the bad weather, etc. There's another chopper at the base, but no one to fly it! . . . . SFMZ Webmaster
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The Thing 1982 Commentaries
Through various movie forums I often engage in discussion on a number of topics regarding The Thing 1982. Some are quite interesting and offer different perspectives. Here are a few of the highlights.
Would Palmer-Thing know how to fly the helicopter? That is an advanced skill
It's a fact within the 82 film's presentation that Blair-Thing had the mental/skill abilities to build an unknown flying craft. What is unknown, was that knowledge and skill an original attribute of the Thing species or did it collect those gifts from assimilating another alien species. In either case, it is still a fact Blair-Thing was able to build the craft regardless of where the knowledge/skill came from.
While human cloning is still fiction, certain logic applies. Cloning is merely duplicating the physical organic (Dolly the sheep). Take the scenario where you were cloned and your occupation is IT Server Engineer. Once the clone comes out of the "clone oven", not only it would not be able to troubleshoot servers, it's basic motor function and no communication skills would make it an invalid. It would have to be taught all the basics - language, interaction with other people - all the fundamentals we learned in our elementary years.
However as we saw in the film as fact, the Thing alien species takes it much further than simply assimilating the physical organic. Within a very short time, it has full comprehension to communicate, speak the language fluently and established unsuspecting interaction with its camp mates. So clearly the Thing alien goes beyond the principles of cloning and has the skill to absorb mental/skill abilities.
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It's possible the development of it's prey's mental/skill abilities is the last stage of the transformation. Proof of this is Bennings. He was in a transformation-in-progress state when he was discovered by Windows and others.
Much of the human form was complete except for the arms and hands. However, it's communication skills apparently were not developed yet, hence letting out that haunting howl just before MacReady burned it.
Now here's the problem I would have with anyone contending Palmer-Thing would not know how to fly the helicopter since that is advanced skills. First of all, the skills being advanced doesn't really hold up considering Blair-Thing was building an advanced craft.
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Secondly, not being able to fly the helicopter would suggest that the Thing alien's abilities to absorb skills is selective....it can 'inherit' communications skills, but it can't fix a broken tractor. It can inherit human interaction at an unsuspecting level, but it can't suture a wound with a thread and needle. This is something an amateur writer would come up with just for the sake of setting up a premise, that would be cherry picking what mental/skill abilities it can inherit to make it fit within the story.
Now of course none of this is ventured in Lancaster's version of the story, he left that aspect untold. But if Palmer-Thing acts like Palmer, it talks like Palmer, it interacts with it's camp mates like Palmer, then it can fly a helicopter like Palmer.....unless you buy into the cherry picking mental/skills theory. ; ) . . . . SFMZ Webmaster
The creature the Norwegians cut out of the ice was not the Thing?
Forum Member: "What Blair was looking at on the computer monitor was the Atari 2600 version of what The Thing looks like. Remember the Petry dish with the camp member's blood in it? That was a bunch of Thing cells imitating human blood. Since each cell is an individual entity, it was "Every Man For Himself" when Mac touched them with the hotwire and they all separated.
The creature the Norwegians cut out of the ice was not the Thing. Remember at the very beginning of the movie when the space ship loses attitude, causing it to crash. That was a fight between the Alien Crew, and those of the crew who had been replicated by the Thing. They probably discovered The Thing like Mac and others at the camp did and confronted it/them, thus causing the ship to crash. Luckily for the Thing, the ship didn't burn up in the crash."
Let's examine this assertion . . . .
This theory has high mileage around the web, so much so, people are claiming it as fact. To his/her credit, the forum member did acknowledge it's only a theory. The original story actually supports both theories, it's debated by the original characters whether the frozen critter was in it's true form or it was another alien species the Thing alien assimilated. Campbell goes on to explain that the characters eventually conclude it is in it's true form when they discovered it buried in ice.
However, Campbell never explains how the characters came to that conclusion. So one could argue that is nothing more than character speculation and the novella description regarding that scene cannot be confirmed as fact the frozen specimen was indeed its true form.
The film presentation offers no such speculation, so we are left with wobbling ships and it's virus spreading nature to form our speculative theories. We don't know that there was a "skirmish between the thing alien and another species causing the wobbling ship." It could just as easily be argued the thing alien in its true form was commandeering the ship and experienced mechanical/electrical/navigation/ or propulsion malfunction.
As for the forum member's point that since it's nature is of the assimilating virus order, so therefore, that means the specimen found in the ice was not the thing: The problem with that is at some point in it's track record, it was in its true form. No way to say one way or another that when the specimen was discovered, it was indeed in its true form or not.
Remember, in the film, we never see the specimen found in the block of ice. We have no idea what physical form the Norwegians found and unwittingly unleashed. What we do know as fact, is whatever it was they unleashed, was indeed hostile . . . causing the devastation of the Norwegian camp.
So if what the forum member says is true, "The creature the Norwegians cut out of the ice was not the Thing," then that means they unleashed another type of hostile alien that attacked the Norwegians. Never heard that theory before, I can't get on board with that one.
The way I see it, we can isolate it to no less than two possible theories 1) It was the Thing alien that assimilated another alien species... or 2) It was the Thing alien in it's true form. In either case . . . it would be the Thing alien . . . now that theory I can get on board with. . . . . SFMZ Webmaster
Yet Another Childs is a Thing Fan Theory: Childs Drinks Gasoline!
Forum Member: "You know when MacReady offers Childs his bottle of J & B at the end, wasn't it full of gasoline and just one of the few that he'd made up as petrol bombs for blowing up the base? Seems like he offered it to him to test whether he was a Thing or not.
It seems to add up because as soon as the "Thing"/Childs takes a swig of the potential gasoline, he doesn't do the human thing and flinch at the taste, and so we see MacReady chuckling wryly to himself, knowing now that Childs is the Thing."
There's really nothing in the film that would support this theory. The bottles thrown are generic bottles. There is no recognizable brand labels on them...or any labels for that matter.
In fact, the first two bottles thrown by MacReady were green wine shaped bottles (the classic burgundy bottle with sloped shoulders). JB Scotch bottles are like Bordeaux type bottles (short neck, tall shoulders, distinctive punt, typical of Merlot wines). You can see they are carrying Molotov cocktails using the Bordeaux type bottles, but the JB bottles have the signature bulb shape neck, where as classic Bordeaux bottles have a linear silo shape.
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With no labels seen, it's doubtful they peeled off the labels before filling them with gasoline. Unlike many wine labels, the JB scotch label covers a fairly large area of the bottle surface. The third bottle thrown by MacReady is a green Bordeaux bottle.
And that's all that is seen on screen other than the bottles they are carrying in pouches (and Garry carrying a crate of them). None of the Bordeaux type bottles they are carrying have the bulb shape neck - the neck shape of JB Scotch bottles. So this fan theory right out the chute relies on a J&B bottle filled with gasoline and the rag sticking out as a fuse. No such visual exists.
Since MacReady escaped the explosion without any bottles at all on his person, the above is further rendered moot. Once they go into the generator room and lay charges, MacReady has removed the pouches with bottles and sets them on the ground near him, so he can wire up the detonator.
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Left: Burgundy bottle shape
Center: Bordeaux bottle shape
Right: J&B bottle shape
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So the only thing Mac has on his person is his pistol and dynamite. Which would mean after surviving the huge explosion, he would have had to return to his shack (they blew up the store rooms where I assume the alcohols, food, toiletries were stored), fill a scotch bottle with gasoline. Seems unlikely - that would mean MacReady would have known beforehand that Childs survived and was going to show up, and Mac can then pull his swigging-the-bottle trap.
Secondly, after Mac sat down in the ruins, he was raising the bottle to his lips to take a swig, and that's when Childs shows up behind him. If that bottle was filled with gasoline, that would mean he was faking to take a swig, not to mention he has eyes in the back of his head to see Childs. All of that seems like quite a stretch to support a theory.
Lastly, there's really nothing in the film to conclude a thing assimilated human would be impervious to the caustic damage of ingesting gasoline. If it can be harmed by a hot needle and vulnerable to fire, logic dictates it would involuntarily spit out a harmful liquid to avoid damage to it's physical organic.
Thing 82 dedicated fan's insistence the film is true to novella
Forum Member: "Carpenter's film IS true to the novella. Far more than "The Thing From Another World" was. Sure some of the characters are condensed, but core characters, like MacReady, Copper, Garry, Clark, Blair, etc. Are included. The original novella had 30 people, way too many for a film like this. And it accurately delves into the alien's ability to take over people and mimic them.
Are elements changed/added? Of course they are. But that happens with any novel to film transition. Even the miniseries of "The Shining" and "The Stand" condensed things. Saying Carpenter's isn't true to the novella because it didn't follow it word-for-word is like saying "Jaws", "Jurassic Park" and "L.A. Confidental" aren't true to their source material.
While Carpenter's The Thing is true to the novella, The Thing From Another World is one of the worst adaptations ever."
Let's examine this assertion step by step . . . .
Carpenter's film IS true to the novella. Far more than "The Thing From Another World" was.
While I agree Thing 82 is more true to the novella than Hawk's 51 film, that doesn't earn it the title of true to the novella. A goose looks more like a duck than a sparrow looks like a duck . . . but that doesn't make the goose a duck.
Sure some of the characters are condensed, but core characters, like MacReady, Copper, Garry, Clark, Blair, etc. Are included. The original novella had 30 people, way too many for a film like this.
I never had issue with the human characters regarding quantity or their occupation/role/name changes. Though I would consider all twelve characters in the 82 film as core characters. A character that has a token line or two and very minor film time is the type you would not include in the description 'core characters.' Not a single character of Thing 82's twelve main characters had insignificant film time or dialogue. The only minor characters are the Norwegians.
So.... yes some of the core character roles, occupations, and names were changed. In the novella, there are 37 men stationed at the camp, but Campbell mentioned the names of the core characters only - Kinner, Van Wall, Barclay, Connant, Ralson, Caldwell, Kinner, Dutton....along with the ones mentioned above.
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In fact Van Wall and Connant were the pilots, not MacReady and Palmer (Connant was secondary pilot, his primary field was cosmic ray specialist, Van Wall was the chief pilot)....not to mention Van Wall was a key member in the novella. MacReady was practically a giant, could play on a NBA team, not a 5'10 82 film MacReady.
MacReady was the meteorologist in the novella, not Bennings. Mac also had a medical background and took over as physician when Copper flipped his gourd ....82 film MacReady had zero medical experience (is there some kinda test, doc?). It looks like Lancaster simply took the Van Wall and MacReady characters and merged them.
In the film, Clark died as a human. In the novella, Clark is an alien. In the film, Garry and Windows(or novella name, Dutton) are killed by the alien towards the end. In the novella, Garry and Windows are already alien.
82 film Norris was a squeamish, indecisive, meak fellow - Novella Norris is a balls to the walls, in your face, hard hitting, no fear, juggernaut; there was no Childs, Barclay was the mechanic; there was no Windows, Dutton was the radio operator; there was no Nauls, Kinner was the cook and a religious fanatic. The Fuchs character doesn't even exist in the novella.
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But again, changing the characters (much more than what the imdb forum member implies), I don't consider that crucial changes, nevertheless they are indeed changes to the core characters. Point is, if one is going to defend the 82 script as being true to the novella, bringing out character consistencies was not a good argument....as you all can now see above.
Dialogue - other than a few key lines, pretty much all of the novella's dialogue was abandoned. Again, the screenplay's dialogue had to be changed to fit Lancaster's version of the novella....so that's understandable (and Lancaster's dialogue was far better than the novella!)......BUT, that certainly doesn't make it true to the novella.
And it accurately delves into the alien's ability to take over people and mimic them.
Those two characteristics of the alien? Yes I agree. But there's so many more layers to the onion, or in this case, the novella alien, read on.
Saying Carpenter's isn't true to the novella because it didn't follow it word-for-word is like saying "Jaws", "Jurassic Park" and "L.A. Confidental" aren't true to their source material.
This is not a case of 'word-for-word' differences. The biggest change is the nature of the alien. The alien portrayed in the novella and the alien in the 82 film are drastically different aliens. Surely anyone can see that, if they have read it.
The novella's alien was much more sinister and had more abilities than the 82 film alien. Omitting those key abilities changes the human/alien conflict dynamics significantly, not to mention Campbell describes the alien in it's true form. The 82 film is a different story by a wide margin as what's told in the novella regarding the heart of the story - the human/alien conflict.
While Carpenter's The Thing is true to the novella, The Thing From Another World is the worst adaptation of a novel, ever.
Let's examine this claim by doing a stare and compare between the two films stacked up to the novella. There are many aspects of Campbell's story, that The Thing From Another World (TTFAW) is more true to the novella than Carpenter's Thing:
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In the novella, there is no Norwegian camp.
In TTFAW, there is no Norwegian camp.
In Carpenter's Thing, presto change-o, a 44 year old American story set in an American camp manned by Americans now all of a sudden has crazy Norwegians running around shooting at a dog and playing Suicide Sad-sack slitting their wrists and throat.
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In the novella, the mode of flight transportation was airplanes. There were no helicopters.
In TTFAW, the mode of flight transportation was airplanes. There were no helicopters.
In Carpenter's Thing, presto change-o, GET TO THE CHOPPAH!
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In the novella, there are 37 members in the camp.
In TTFAW, there are 30 members in the camp.
In Carpenter's Thing, presto change-o, now there's only 12 members in the camp.
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In the novella, Geiger counters are used to detect the creature and the ship.
In TTFAW, Geiger counters are used to detect the creature and the ship.
In Carpenter's Thing, presto change-o, plenty of booze and dope . . . . but no Geiger counters! Why would an explorers camps . . . . with geologists . . . . not have a Geiger counter?
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In the novella, the block of ice was melted by a small heat stove, that was guarded by one person keeping watch in a closed off room. This is the awakening of the Thing.
In TTFAW, the block of ice was melted by an electric heat blanket, that was guarded by one person keeping watch in a closed off room. This is the awakening of the Thing.
In Carpenter's Thing, presto change-o, The Thing of 82 is served up already thawed. . . . apparently the melting and awakening of the the Thing takes place......before the 82 film begins!
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In the novella, the characters can sense it was alive, they "feel it." Along with suspecting it could read their minds.
In TTFAW, the characters can sense it was alive, they "feel it." Along with suspecting it could read their minds.
In Carpenter's Thing, presto change-o, no more mind reading for you, Mr. Thing.
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In the novella, there is extensive heated debate regarding leaving the creature frozen and quarantined. The first three entire chapters of a 12 chapter novella, covers this heated debate.
In TTFAW, there is extensive heated debate regarding leaving the creature frozen and quarantined. This conflict between the scientists and the military continues a good 30-40 minutes into the story.
In Carpenter's Thing, presto change-o, quarantine...shmorantine....we don't need no stinking quarantine! Let Blair just dig into that hunk of virus infected alien flesh! If you watch that scene closely, you can see Blair actually sliding his naked arm against the virus infected alien flesh...but hey, no problem! ;)
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In the novella, the thing is attacked by the dogs. The Thing uses it talons to fight back, but the dogs kick it's ass.
In TTFAW, the thing is attacked by the dogs. The Thing uses it talons to fight back, but the dogs kick it's ass.
In Carpenter's Thing, presto change-o, the dogs get whooped by the Thing who can shoot Wham-O's Silly String at the dogs.
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In the novella, the alien ship played havoc on the pole's magnetic field, causing instruments and detectors to go whacko, axes turned red hot in their hands, metal buttons on their coats melted.
In TTFAW, the alien ship played havoc on the pole's magnetic field, causing ground and airplane instruments to go whacko.
In Carpenter's Thing, presto change-o, apparently MacReady's chopper is immune to alien ship magnetic field meddling properties. He zipped right in next to the alien ship without a hitch.
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In the novella, a character sunk his axe into the skull of The Thing while chopping it out of the ice.
In TTFAW (script), a character sunk his axe into the skull of The Thing while chopping it out of the ice..
In Carpenter's Thing, presto change-o, we have no idea what happen since the thing 82 completely omitted that part of the story.
Now for this example, it may be considered a cheat since I'm referencing the TTFAW script rather than the film. Fair enough, taking a look a the Thing 82 script . . . there still is no character sinking his axe into the skull of the alien while chopping it out of the ice. So this example is your prerogative to retain merit or dismiss as applicable.
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In the novella, the humans ultimately defeated the Thing by using electrocution.
In TTFAW, the humans ultimately defeated the Thing by using electrocution.
In Carpenter's Thing, presto change-o, let's blow it up and spread it's single cell entities all over the place, scattering it's virus properties in now a much wider radius to be frozen and infecting earth's organisms later if or when they are discovered.
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Now how is it possible that the "worst adaptation ever" hit closer to the original story in many aspects than the version that is "true to the novella?"
I could come up with twice as many examples that Carpenter's The Thing strayed from the novella, if we were to compare just those two. No, maybe even three times as many.
Point is, considering the examples above, anyone who claims the 51 film is the worst adaptation when it was never intended more than being loosely based on the story, while claiming Carpenter's Thing is true to the novella, is is being a little too much in love with Carpenter's horror sci-fi classic.....blind love.
I think Lancaster's version overall is better than the original story. But......being better....does not automatically credit the 82 film as true to the original story. Personally, I'm thankful the 82 film story is not true to the original. . . . . SFMZ Webmaster
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